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[steering] archive meeting notes from 2017-2022

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+## December 7, 2017
+
+* **Bosun**: Brandon Philips [CoreOS] (@brandonphilips)
+* **Note Taker**: Brandon Philips [CoreOS] (@brandonphilips)
+* **Attendees**
+    * Aaron Crickenberger [Samsung SDS]
+    * Brandon Philips [CoreOS]
+    * Brendan Burns [Microsoft]
+    * Brian Grant [Google]
+    * Clayton Coleman [Redhat]
+    * Derek Carr [Red Hat]
+    * Joe Beda [Heptio]
+    * Phillip Wittrock [Google]
+    * Michelle Noorali [Microsoft]
+    * Sarah Novotny [Google]
+    * Timothy St Clair [Heptio]
+    * Tim Hockin [Google]
+* **Absent**
+    * Quinton Hoole	[Huawei]
+* **Topics**
+    * Discussion around steering committee velocity and breaking into smaller teams
+    * **Proposal**: Do weekly standups and break into 2-3 teams that tackle 2-3 issues a month
+    * [Draft values discussion](https://docs.google.com/document/d/12J0YLKBOfBTMd8ZdPpFMIAhMmGIfapMg-nkYPJYY7FY/edit) - everyone says it looks good
+
+**Iteration Teams**
+
+* **Values**: Sarah, Brendan (everyone LGTM)
+* **Owners**: Brian, Aaron
+* **SIG Interfaces: **Phillip, Joe, Michelle
+* **Charter Cleanup: **Clayton, Tim, Derek (amendment language)
+
+**Actions**
+
+* Philips: update the backlog.md to show the sprint [https://github.com/kubernetes/steering/pull/13](https://github.com/kubernetes/steering/pull/13)
+
+## November 8, 2017
+
+* **Bosun**: Aaron Crickenberger [Samsung SDS] (@spiffxp)
+* **Note Taker**: Sarah Novotny [Google] (@sarahnovotny)
+* **Attendees**
+    * Aaron Crickenberger [Samsung SDS]
+    * Sarah Novotny [Google]
+    * Tim Hockin {Google}
+    * Brian Grant [Google]
+    * Joe Beda [Heptio]
+    * Michelle Noorali [Microsoft]
+    * Derek Carr [Red Hat]
+    * Brendan Burns [Microsoft]
+    * Timothy St Clair [Heptio]
+    * Clayton Coleman [Redhat]
+* **Topics**
+    * Administrivia
+        * Public meeting notes: this doc? Separate doc? .md in k/steering repo?
+            * Read only publishing of the steering committee agenda
+            * AI -- Aaron to read before pushing publish to kubernetes-dev@
+        * Public meeting recording: where do we want to post these?
+            * Kubernetes YouTube Channel -- @jorge can help create a playlist
+            * AI -- Joe to reach out to Jorge
+        * [Do we need to ratify Michelle as CNCF GB rep with a vote?](https://github.com/kubernetes/steering/issues/9)
+            * Nope -- announced on twitter so it must be true.
+        * Next Bosun: Any volunteers? If we’re still going alphabetically by first name (thanks for that), it’s Brandon
+            * Brandon next Bosun in either December or January.
+        * December meetings
+            * Still an open question.
+    * Action Item followup
+        * [steering@k8s.io](mailto:steering@k8s.io), [steering-private@k8s.io](mailto:steering-private@k8s.io) have been created, thanks Tim
+            * Need final clarity on subscribe-ability of steering@
+                * Yes, subscribable.  But, committee reserves the right to move conversations to other lists.
+            * AI -- Tim steering-private Publicly postable (done)
+        * Do we have a document that describes when/how to use them? Consensus?
+        * k/steering has a CONTRIBUTING.md, thanks Joe
+            * AI -- michelle make PR
+        * Discuss the charter: are we ready to ratify?
+            * Sounded like Tim SC had some thoughts
+            * Strip the existing doc into mission, scope, outline
+            * Move the election content into another doc.
+            * Must improve the MoS definition.
+            * Propose a PR and get LGTMs from each committee member?
+            * Committee’s responsibility for a charter.  Comments from the community will be considered, but not necessarily addressed.
+            * Scope: Streamline charter
+                * Remove bootstrap language
+                * Defer MoS update
+                * **Add Amendment process**
+                    * ⅔ of the steering committee and one week notice
+                    * Lazy consensus for everyday biz
+                * AI -- Derek -- Amendment language
+                * AI -- Tim St Clair -- streamline charter.
+    * Incubation
+        * Where do we stand on this?
+            * Review of incubator projects -- in/out?
+            * What is the architectural vision of the kubernetes project?
+            * Endorsement as a byproduct of graduation
+            * Ecosystem
+            * Brendan
+                * Sig sponsored --  scratch space - free form
+                * Incubator bestows “officialdom” / cla -- get rid of that
+                * Started on the outside do we want to bring it in? .
+            * Joe
+                * Another category
+                    * Graduated already and don’t fit the new devs.
+                * \
+            * Aaron
+                * 61 repos in k/
+                * Brian doesn’t think we have enough
+                * Derek doesnt’ think they’re well enough bounded
+            * Tim St Clair
+                * Sunset period for projects which should exit the k/k space
+                * Potential org or set of orgs for these adjacent projects
+            * Brendan
+                * Sunsetting isn’t bad, but hard to make progress.
+            * Clayton --
+                * If a sig decides to adopt something, who is a SIG? membership/vote.
+                * If sig node wants to put another container runtime into k/k  are they able to?
+                    * New project, yes.
+                    * Existing project, no
+            * Brendan
+                * Saad is doing this with snapshopts… not in core.
+            * Clayton
+                * Prototype repos under SIG-CLI
+            * Brian
+                * No clear notion of decider for sig
+            * Derek
+                * Tied to owners in kube
+            * Joe
+                * That’s not the discussion we are having.. .but agree should be related to owners.
+            * Brendan
+                * SIG as owners… not k/k
+                * k/k can be draw in pieces from sigs
+            * Aaron
+                * Is Incubator the same as SIG scratch space?
+            * Brendan
+                * Contrib was a BAD
+                * Each SIG breaks the connection of kubernetes
+            * Clayton
+                * Sigs should be more independent
+                * Loose model works well for prototyping
+            * Derek
+                * What is the expectation of testing services
+            * Aaron
+                * Consistent tooling from kubernetes? Orthogonal to our incubation process
+                * Need to unblock people who are trying to put projects in k/k and or incubator.
+            * Brendan
+                * Don’t want to start in a new org == blessing
+                * Kubernetes-sig-cli org etc.
+                * Playground
+            * Aaron
+                * What is the architectural vision?
+                * What is the k8s project?
+                * What repos fit that vision?
+                * What is the mapping from sig <-> repo?
+                * A few people from this group need to work offline and discover what the boundaries might be.
+            * Brendan
+                * Not trying to retro organize
+                * Trying to give space to explore without blessing everyhing
+            * Joe
+                * Do need to go through the exiting repos
+                * Fairness for incubators
+            * Brian
+                * We’re rehashing
+                * Review the docs.  We’re mostly in agreement
+            * Derek
+                * Merit looking at incubator repos
+                * Sig vs playground?
+            * Brian
+                * Eventually want every piece of code to be assigned to a sig.
+                * Other than k/k k/docs …. Are cross project mono repos
+            * Michelle
+                * Org for each sig?
+            * Brian
+                * Api-machinery will need multiple orgss
+                * Main driver for more orgs == permissions
+                * Overhead of admin is messy either way
+            * AI -- Brendan write a document to walk through incubator list and find patterns of in/out/ bubble
+            * AI -- Brian write a document for what to bring to the architecture for new repos
+            * Brian
+                * Unblock organic growth
+                * SIG org veto was around no decision process inside the sigs.
+        * Matt’s doc: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DjPSKe01a4BLi2cxUENTbQZGmANhumt8LQVz03wiiAw/edit#](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DjPSKe01a4BLi2cxUENTbQZGmANhumt8LQVz03wiiAw/edit#)
+        * Phil’s doc: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_FBm9zR4vU2X3-j-jSGlDPIkXweQbc_x6Fc6Ph0OupQ/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_FBm9zR4vU2X3-j-jSGlDPIkXweQbc_x6Fc6Ph0OupQ/edit)
+    * Kubecon
+        * We have one more f2f meeting prior to Kubecon, is there anything we need to prioritize?
+* **Action Items**
+
+## October 25, 2017 -
+
+* **Bosun**: Aaron Crickenberger [Samsung SDS] (@spiffxp)
+* **Note Taker**: Brandon Philips [CoreOS] (@philips)
+* **Attendees**
+    * Joe Beda, Tim St. Clair [Heptio]
+    * Aaron Crickenberger, [Samsung SDS]
+    * Derek Carr, Clayton Coleman [Red Hat]
+    * Phillip Wittrock, Sarah Novotny, Brian Grant, Tim Hockin [Google]
+    * Brandon Philips [CoreOS] NOTE TAKER!
+    * Michelle Noorali, Brendan Burns [Microsoft]
+    * Quinton Hoole [Huawei]
+* **Topics**
+    * Administrivia
+        * How do people contact us?
+            * Today: p2p or e-mail [steering@k8s.io](mailto:steering@k8s.io)
+            * Ideas: e-mail [steering-public@k8s.io](mailto:steering-public@k8s.io), #steering-committee slack, issues on kubernetes/steering
+            * **Consensus**: See AIs below
+        * How do we respond?
+            * Today: “we’re very busy, it’s in our backlog”
+            * **Consensus**: use the list
+        * How do we keep track of our ongoing backlog / priorities?
+            * Today: we have backlog.md in kubernetes/steering
+            * Ideas: this working doc, a spreadsheet, issues in kubernetes/steering, regular updates to backlog.md
+            * **Consensus:** using a backlog.md file and steering folks should just merge their own stuff. PR workflow reserved for CoC or something. Joe will write-up something.
+        * Do we record meetings?
+            * Today: we aren’t
+            * Ideas: what does our charter say? tick-tock a public recording, and a private meeting with no recording?
+            * **Consensus:** start meetings as not recording, confirm with the group before starting the recording early in the meeting
+        * What do we make public?
+            * Today: the contents of kubernetes/steering
+            * Ideas: what does our charter say? Public mailing list (separate from kubernetes-dev), public meeting notes (follow same tick-tock?), github issues etc
+            * **Consensus: **Default to public on recording and mailing list
+        * What is quorum for us?
+            * Meeting quorum?
+            * Decision / binding quorum?
+            * **Consensus: **Half + 1 on meetings to start, 2/3rd on votes for binding stuff. Consensus is the goal but not requirement. Future: modified [lazy consensus](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fRYZYQlCGv4ebMqwZE8BRzPbuGl8ElyaNr5CuEmaRyk/edit).
+    * Top 3 priorities ([spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ym3gXY7I1gs_RSqCfzeg7BlCZk0THAYc-jvVrLe0vDo/edit#gid=0))
+        * Incubator
+            * What does being a Kubernetes project mean?
+            * Policy of accepting new code -> means it is a CNCF project
+            * Management of the GitHub orgs
+            * Decision process for how and when a project qualifies
+                * Problem: no clear way to reject
+* What is motivating people to be an incubator project?
+    * Legal ownership of code
+    * Process support (bots, release, etc)
+    * Official blessing / endorsement
+    * "Neutral ownership"
+    * Visibility
+    * Bundling into releases
+* What are we afraid of?
+    * Transferring legal ownership of code after it is produced
+* Why do we feel this is urgent?
+    * Incubation projects coming up for being kicked out after 1yr
+    * No process is blocking to grandparent in old code
+        * Code of conduct
+        * SIG Charters
+        * Honorable mention: charter ratification
+            * Do we have an amendment process for the doc?
+            * [Charter](https://github.com/kubernetes/steering/blob/master/charter.md)
+* Discussion around ownership and SIGs
+    * Misc questions ([spiffxp] we didn’t have time to get to these)
+        * [quinton] [Measuring the value of Kubernetes contributions]( https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/kubernetes-wg-contribex/UtfHQCvaKw4/qVu0yt4cBQAJ) - there’s a thread about this on sig-contribex, and I’ve offered to draft a proposal for review.  Does the steering committee have any early input/opinions?
+        * [spiffxp] clarifying community-membership ladder
+            * These are coming from “we want a contributor mentorship program”
+            * Is the reviewers / approvers / maintainers distinction useful across all repos?
+            * are the numbers for each of these roles set in stone?
+* **Action Items**
+    * **Tim Hockin: **own [steering@k8s.io](mailto:steering@k8s.io) and [steering-private@k8s.io](mailto:steering-private@k8s.io), rename existing list to -private, create a new steering that is world writeable and world readable but cannot be subscribed to
+    * ???: Document when we use each list: regular business happens on steering list and the steering-private is postable only by the team and how to engage with the steering committee
+    * **Joe Beda:** write a steering.git editing guideline -- done
+    * **Brandon Philips: **Send charter discussion to mailing list
+    * **All: **Discuss the charter on the public mailing list and get to consensus on ratification
+
+## October 18, 2017 -
+
+* **Bosun**:  404
+* **Note Taker**: Joe Beda - Heptio
+* **Attendees**
+    * Joe Beda, Tim St. Clair - Heptio
+    * Sarah Novotny - Google
+    * Aaron Crickenberger - Samsung SDS
+    * Brian Grant - Google
+    * Phillip Wittrock - Google
+    * Tim Hockin - Google
+    * Michelle Noorali - Microsoft
+    * Brandon Philips - CoreOS
+* **Topics**
+    * [sarahnovotny] Contributor Summit invitation selection
+        * Thread on selection.
+        * Need to pick something now.
+        * Options:
+            * 1. SIG leads and WG leads + SIG nominations + lottery
+            * 2. SIG leads and WG leads + lottery
+            * 3. Lottery
+                * a) from those that voted in election (300 people)
+                * b) members of standing
+            * **4. SIG leads WG leads + editorial quota + MoS lottery**
+        * Is it deliberately not on conf agenda? Yes -- because it is invite only.
+        * 150 people
+        * Contributor summit last time:
+            * SIG leads + approvers + 5 top companies to nominate people + lottery
+        * Allow transfers? No -- go to the next picked person, etc
+        * What are purposes? Can we make decisions?
+            * Mostly about getting on the same page and motivation
+            * Direct effort to the right areas
+            * Review what happened since leadership summit
+        * Joe is a broken record about his concerns around SIG leadership rights and responsibilities
+        * Use owners file? Already used for “members of standing”
+            * Quinton: We need to be careful here that we don’t use things created for one purpose for another purpose and offend folks.
+            * Tim: We were super lenient with member of standing list. May want to curate more for contrib summit.
+        * Quinton: do the least offensive thing and fix this going forward?
+        * Sarah: all of this is great but we need to get invites out ASAP
+        * Brian: get interest and then lottery?
+            * Tim/Tim: not enough time
+        * Brian: Pure lottery seems less than useful.  We have
+    * [sarahnovotny] CNCF Project representation to the board
+        * This is the Governing Board -- business/marketing/serving
+        * Who from steering committee doesn’t want to be on board?
+            * Tim StC, Joe, Clayton, Derek, Quinton
+            * Brian, Sarah - have to deal with it already
+            * TimH - will do it if I have to
+            * Brandon - already there
+            * Left: Aaron, **Michelle**, Phil
+    * [jbeda] Curation of top things to address?
+        * Perhaps have everyone list their top three priorities and we can see what bubbles to the top?
+            * Project incubation
+                * Graduation
+            * CoC group
+        * [Backlog](https://github.com/kubernetes/steering/blob/master/backlog.md) for reference.
+        * Offline discussion
+            * Items in spreadsheet by fri
+            * Pull together agenda by tuesday
+    * [spiffxp] test-infra cluster funded by cncf?
+        * Current cluster under a google.com project, can’t add outside collaborators
+        * Want to run just the core test-infra stack (eg: prow, submit-queue, etc) on a cluster that non-googlers can help support
+        * Curious if this is the right place to handle this (or falls under top priority / backlog above)
+        * Notes:
+            * Aaron wants to see all tests to be run by non-googlers
+            * Tim: there is a GCP project but there is question on who/how it gets paid.
+            * Things that directly benefit cloud providers (GKE testing, GPU) should be funded by those providers
+            * Tim and Aaron to take this offline.
+    * [pwittroc] where do subprojects store container images & bits?
+        * Is this something we talk about today or later w/ backlog.  Related to the test-infra item above
+        * GCR - more vanity name -- k8s.gcr.io will be a thing
+        * Can put any subdirectories we want in there.  Can categorize.
+        * Easy transition outside of google
+        * [Brandon] Circling around some central tenants
+            * Domain names, hosting and billing needs to be owned by k8s project
+    * Questions to answer:
+        * Do we record meetings?
+            * Quinton/Aaron: I’m in favor of public but there is a lot of sensitive discussion that we need a safe space
+            * Brian: Public office hours?
+        * Do we have a “chair” or work via consensus?
+            * Monthly or quarterly rotation of speaker/whip
+            * Name:** Boatswain**
+            * Frequency:** Monthly**
+            * First Boatswain: **Aaron**
+        * What is open, what is closed?
+            * Brian: we should have an open email list for public business
+* **Action items**
+    * Joe to pull together spreadsheet for folks to list their 3 top things from backlog and send mail to steering committee